John MacArthur: The Rapture Of The Church
January 292010
This excerpt is taken from a message ( The Final Generation of the Future Judgment, Luke 21:29-33) that was given a few months ago at Grace Community Church. The rapture is considered controversial in some areas of the Church but i really believe that if all Scriptures are looked at carefully and christians understand that the great tribulation is not about the church but Israel and the unbelieving world, then everything fits perfectly into place. The Church is in Heaven at the beginning of Revelation 4 and comes back to earth with the Lord Jesus at the end of the great tribulation period in Revelation 19. This is an area where christians can respectfully agree to disagree without breaking fellowship with one another.
Duration : 0:9:39
[youtube fzsBC2yiqG8]
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
The questions John …
The questions John poses against post tribulation rapture are answered with the Pre Wrath Rapture view.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
part2 (cont)…at …
part2 (cont)…at that website. I think I’ve read the Yada Yahweh one before, but I’ll look at that too.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
As I understand it, …
As I understand it, the Mosaic Law does indeed contain 613 commandments if you go through & count them all up (obviously there’s some dispute about the actual number amongst Jews themselves) Anyhow, the thrust of that guy’s article I spoke of is simply that the entire law passed away & was replaced by the Law of Christ, which is a law that although retaining many of the old commandments (it contains 9 of the famous “ten” commandments), annuls many others. Thanks for the link. I’ll look (cont)…
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
I should let you …
I should let you know that the website is down today, some big update, but check later or tomorrow or whenever. Yada Yahweh is also good. Trust me, they ain’t heavy, just the TOM one is brilliant in explaining the Torah from a Christian mindset.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Not meaning to be …
Not meaning to be rude but the author used the 613 laws which stem from Rabbinical Judaism, and not the Torah, to build his article, a mistake I did in the past as well. Yahushua slambasted the Pharisees (Orthodox Jews today) because of it. If people keep trying to put the laws into categories, like moral, civil, and ceremonial laws they will be lead astray every time, not really getting to understand what they actually mean and are symbolic of. Consider reading theownersmanual(dot)net.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
“The Law is …
“The Law is incredibly deep but us Christians don’t look very far, mistakenly believing the law is done away with, hence not worthy of our attention.”
However, I’d disagree with you that the Law of Moses still applies. For a good piece which deals with this issue, go to Ariel(dot)org, click on the words “Messianic Studies” on the front page, then click on the piece called “Fruit from the Frucht,” then (finally) scroll down to the piece entitled “The Law of Moses and the Law of Messiah.”
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
part2 (cont)…will …
part2 (cont)…will also be fulfilled by future events.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
“One thing …
“One thing Christians have not paid attention to is the seven set-appointed Feasts, with the fifth feast in line being the Feast of Trumpets (which to me is a symbolic dress rehearsal for the Rapture), situated ten days before the Day of Atonement, indicating it will happen before His Second Coming.”
Ah, that’s more like it. Totally agree with you on that one. The Feast of Trumpets does indeed foreshadow the Rapture, which is why Paul uses the term “last trump.” The other feasts (cont)…
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Let’s not forget …
Let’s not forget David’s words in Psalm 119 how he loves God’s law, it is a guide to him, and long’s for His salvation. Verse 174 “I have longed for thy salvation (H3444 yshuw`ah – Yahushua, the Name of the Messiah), O LORD (H3068 Yhovah – Yahuweh, the Name of the Father); and thy law (H8451 towrah – Torah, the Law) [is] my delight.”
The Law is incredibly deep but us Christians don’t look very far, mistakenly believing the law is done away with, hence not worthy of our attention.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
As far as I’m …
As far as I’m concerned I’m only beginning to touch the surface of the text. One thing Christians have not paid attention to is the seven set-appointed Feasts, with the fifth feast in line being the Feast of Trumpets (which to me is a symbolic dress rehearsal for the Rapture), situated ten days before the Day of Atonement, indicating it will happen before His Second Coming. So far the first four feasts were fulfilled in chronological order and on their exact dates on the Biblical calendar (cont)
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
part2 (cont)… …
.
part2 (cont)…audience. I think the Levitcus 14 thing is going way way beyond the text
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
MBurnsZA – Yeah I …
MBurnsZA – Yeah I undertand that Paul is quoting that passage from the OT and is applying it to a different situation, but there is obviously a limit on how far you can stretch the meaning of a given passage, and he’s not saying that the original passage had more than one intended meaning. Naturally things like literal adultery would be compared to spiritual adultery by writers, but the orginal passages outlawing adultery like Lev 20 would not have two (or more) intended meanings to the(cont)…
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
1 Corinthians 9:9- …
1 Corinthians 9:9-10 “For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us…”
I’m just using the phrase above of Paul to highlight that the Law goes far deeper than face value. I.E.: Though Adultery is about cheating on one’s partner the deeper principle teaches us that we shouldn’t sleep with other gods
Consider Isaiah 18 and 57
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
“Leviticus 14:33-53 …
“Leviticus 14:33-53 confirms the Rapture happening before the Tribulation, this passage is deeply symbolic!”
I agree that the Rapture is pre-trib, but I think your interpetation of that passage is way off the mark. I don’t know any serious scholar who would use that passage to teach a rapture. The Rapture of the Church is not in the OT in any case, for the Church was a mystery not revealed in the OT.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
part3 (cont)… …
part3 (cont)…Christ was the first man to rise in the category which is the first resurrection
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
part2 (cont)… …
part2 (cont)…event which occurs before all others. By this time, Christ has been resurrected for almost two thousand years, yet Scripture calls this subsequent event the first resurrection. It is first from the perspective of its priority : those who participate in the resurrection of life rather than the resurrection of condemnation (John 5:28-29). It is also first relative to the Millennial Kingdom since the subsequent resurrection will not be until one thousand years later. (cont)….
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
On the issue of the …
On the issue of the resurrection, the phrase “1st resurrection” does not mean “1st in time” in the sense that it is the 1st and there were no resurrections before it. It is simply a category. The 1st resurrection is for believers, whilst the 2nd resurrection is for unbelievers. As one writer has said, “The use of first to describe a resurrection which follows after Christs resurrection, gives us an initial clue that first cannot denote absolute chronological order—as that of a single (cont)…
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Leviticus 14:33-53 …
Leviticus 14:33-53 confirms the Rapture happening before the Tribulation, this passage is deeply symbolic!
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
1 Thes. 5:15
“For …
1 Thes. 5:15
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. ”
COMING/PAROUSIA… the dead will rise first BEFORE we are caught up… when are the dead resurrected, James?…
John 6:39-40,44
james, you have no scriptural evidence to back this up… only misinterpretations and lies handed down by man.
I don’t rely on man’s word. I rely on God’s Word.
God will always be right.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Hebrews 9:28 is …
Hebrews 9:28 is dealing with the Rapture not the “2nd Coming” to the earth. Heb 9:28 is the 2nd time He appears to humans, but it says nothing about Him coming to earth to live. So, with the pre-trib view, you do not have “3 comings” as such, for the term “2nd Coming” was coined to refer to that fact that when Jesus comes back to live here it’ll be the 2nd time He has lived on earth. At the Rapture He does not touch down on earth, so it cannot be seen as a 3rd coming in that same sense.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:55 am
absolutely NOWHERE …
absolutely NOWHERE in the Bible does it say that His Coming is 2 seperate events.. NOWHERE.
in order to get that idea, you have to go INTO His Word with that belief already in your mind. That is called eisogesis.. the Bible forbids eisogesis (2 Peter 1:20)
anyone can go into the Bible, take a verse out of context, & prove that it says something it doesn’t. An atheist can take Psalm 14:1 out of context & use it to “prove” that there is no God.
We deserve Tribulation & will go through it.