Comments for Church Fellowship

Comment on What is the fellowship of the mystery which from eternity has been hidden in God? by Broken Alabaster Flask

Broken Alabaster Flask — Sat, 14 Jan 2012 10:18:59 +0000

This is an interesting version, the NKJV. I checked a few others ( Darby, NIV, RcV, ASV, AMP) and the translation for the word ‘ Fellowship " in the NKJV is seen as " Plan, Administration, Dispensation, Economy"

The Greek word, oikonomia, means house law, household management or administration, and derivatively, administrative dispensation, plan, economy.

God’s mystery is His hidden purpose, which is to dispense Himself into His chosen people. Hence, there is the economy of the mystery of God. This mystery was hidden in God throughout the ages, but now the New Testament believers, having been enlightened, are able to see it.

Within the Godhead, there was this Fellowship, this Oneness and a heart’s desire to create Man and that this Man would contain Him, be filled with Him, express Him and exercise His dominion on the whole inhabited earth. This was not in an individual man, but as we see in this verse in Ephesians, this image and dominion is seen in the Church as the Body of Christ. All the multifarious wisdom of God is seen in and through the Church.

One day we were all damaged by sin, and had no hope in this world. We were alienated from God in every way. The whole of creation was in a condition of ruin and under Satan’s usurpation.

But Praise the Lord! God, who had a fellowship, a plan,a purpose deep in His being, that included us. Even though Satan came in to frustrate God’s purpose, God would NOT be deterred. Satan thought that he had man under his bondage and damaged man to a point of no return. But God came in to rescue us, redeem us, bring us back to our rightful position before Him. He came into us as the Spirit and in this Fellowship of the Spirit, we who have believed into God have been made ONE with Him for His plan, His purpose, to meet His goal.

Today, we are Joined to Christ who is the Head. As His Body on the earth, we enjoy the fellowship of the Spirit and have been brought into the fellowship of God. This mystery is that God has taken hopeless sinners, and regenerated them, daily sanctified them, transform them from glory to glory, they bear the image of Christ and THROUGH this One New Man, made up of Christ as the Head and the Church as His Body, ALL Of God’s wisdom is shown to the authorities and rulers in the heavenlies, that ALL things WOULD be headed up in Christ. No longer would the whole of creation be in a state of ruin and turmoil. But all things, those things in the heavens, on the earth would be headed up in Christ. He will gain the preeminence, and have the FIRST PLACE in all things. God does this through the Church.

Satan thought he won. He did not KNOW or SEE this mystery hidden deep in God’s heart. He did not realize that the man he ruined would be redeemed, transformed, conformed and glorified as the ONE NEW MAN. That through the Church as the One New Man, God would carry out His fellowship, carry out what has been in His heart.

God has joined Himself to man, dispensing His very life and nature into us, filling us and we can stand with God on the earth, to bring all things in order.

Ephesians 1:10
Unto the economy of the fullness of the times, to head up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in Him;

May we continue to take care of the Fellowship of the Spirit, to keep the Oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace. Caring for what is on God’s heart by holding to Christ as the Head. We will be richly supplied with all that Christ as obtained and attained. We lack nothing.

God is gaining what He had mysteriously hidden in Himself since eternity past. It is realize in us today as the Church. What a mercy to be in such a place!
References :
RcV. NIV. ASV

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by JoeBama

JoeBama — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 17:34:59 +0000

The Catholic Church claims to have the authority to interpret and reinterpret the Bible. Their teaching on many subjects, therefore has changed over the years.

Hebrews 13:8-9, however, says, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Do not be carried away with various and strange doctrines…" Jesus never changes, therefore, our teaching should not change.

Catholics claim to be the original church partly because they claim to be able to trace themselves back through TIME to the church of the first century.

A modern church, however, is not traced to the original by time, rather a church is traced to the original (or differentiated from the original) by the things it teaches, how it worships, the name it wears, how it is organized, who it follows, and how membership is gained. If a church is the same as the original in these ways, then you have found the original church today.

To show that the original church is not traced by time, note 1 Timothy 4:1 ff. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils…"

Note that "some shall depart from the faith". Not just "faith", but "the faith". (They don’t just grow weak in faith, but they depart from the "one faith" – Eph 4:4-5)

Those who have departed from "the faith" would be able to trace themselves back through time to a point before the departure, therefore, time is not a safe guide. If you would compare them to the original church, however, you would see their doctrine and/or practices were different. You would see they are no longer part of the same faith.

Such is the case with many churches today. If they are compared to the Bible, one would find there are many differences from the original faith.
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References :
Searching for Truth (video series)
http://www.thebible.net/searchingfortruth/

What the Bible Says About the Church of Christ (book)
http://www.apologeticspress.com/pdfs/e-books_pdf/wtbsatcoc.pdf

What the Bible Says About the Catholic Church (book)
http://apologeticspress.org/pdfs/e-books_pdf/wtbsatcc.pdf

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by frankenstein3000

frankenstein3000 — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 17:01:59 +0000

Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible? Were they first church of Christ?

I offer you the Four Biblical Truth from Catholic perspective:

1st Biblical Truth: The separation of Christians are against God’s plan.
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Jesus prayed to the Father "The glory that you have given me I have given them that they may be one even as we are one " John 17:22

How did these divisions begin?
They began when individuals began to take the Bible as their sole authority and interpret it by themselves.

2nd Biblical Truth: Sacred Scripture was never meant to be read alone.
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The last book of the New Testament was only completed in 100 AD and the list of books to be included in the Bible was only finalized by 397 AD. Clearly, at least until that time, the early Church must have regarded something else as authoritative for the Faith.

This "something else" is Sacred Tradition. This includes the Bible, but also oral teachings and unwritten practices. Sacred Tradition helps us to interpret the Bible rightly, according with what the early Christians believed.

"So then brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" 2 Thessalonians 2:15

Where can I find this Sacred Tradition?

3rd Biblical Truth: SACRED TRADITION is found in the Church built by Jesus
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The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth 1 Timothy 3:15

Jesus said, "I will build my Church and the powers of hell shall not triumph over it" Matthew 16:18

And where is this Church?

Through her successive leaders of Popes and bishops, the Catholic Church traces her roots and identifies with the Biblical church founded by Jesus Christ. All Protestant churches were founded by men not more than 500 years ago.

We are secure knowing that the father of lies will never succeed in introducing false doctrines into the Church that Jesus Christ founded. To claim that the Catholic Church, as the bearer of this promise, has deviated from the truth is to call God a liar.

4th Biblical Truth: A SPECIAL AUTHORITY was given by Jesus to the leader of his Church
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Without clear and visible leadership, the people of God would be left to do what they thought was best. This is a sure path to division and idolatry (Judges 17:6, 21:25).

Jesus said to Peter, "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" Matthew 16:19

St. Peter received special authority to arbitrate over Church disputes and discern authentic Tradition. Even St. Paul did not decide on his own but recognized this authority in a doctrinal dispute that broke out in the early Church (Acts 15:3)

Christ planned for the Church to remain till the end of time. Wouldn’t it be strange that He would give this visible office of authority to Peter and not intend for it to be passed on in succession?

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Jesus’ promise that the Spirit would lead the Church into all truth (John 16:12, Acts 15:28) enables the Church to consolidate, grow in insight and clarify the teaching of the Apostles. It was the Catholic Church, exercising this authority that defined what we hold today to be indisputable: Christ’s human and divine nature, the Trinity and the books to be included in the Bible.

The Catholic Church has been accused of being slow to change. In fact she is always cautious to change and has changed nothing that has been received doctrinally essential from the Lord. An honest examination of early Christian letters as historical documents reveal belief in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary and to the saints, prayers for the Dead, Baptism of infants and Confession of sins; everything which you may have heard were innovations of the Catholic Church.

Today, you can plant your Faith firmly upon the facts of God’s Word. Just as you have a biblical faith that in no other name can you be saved except the name of Jesus, in no Christian denominations is there fullness of Truth except in the Catholic Church. In this Church alone is there Apostolic Faith, God-ordained Authority and the Sacraments of Salvation.
References :
The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
http://www.sfx.com.my/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=128:four-biblical-truths&catid=62&Itemid=70

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by T.Ruth

T.Ruth — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:32:59 +0000

No man has authority over the Bible (according to God’s Word.)
No man has spiritual authority over any other man (according to God’s Word.)
No man has authority over God or any spiritual matters whatsoever (according to God’s Word.)

The "first Christians" were Jews who accepted Jesus Christ as their awaited Messiah.
The first church was not any denomination at all (Roman Catholics didn’t form as a denomination until much later, despite their claims otherwise.)
Regardless, the order in which followers come to Christ matters nothing, especially if you take seriously the Bible statements that "the first will be last and the last will be first"!

If you’re seeking a church to become a part of, the most important thing to consider is if they teach the truth according to the Bible and don’t add or subtract from that. To understand that nothing that any denomination adds or subtracts from the Bible is of any importance to the truth of the matter is paramount to following Christ rather than allowing yourself to be caught up in religion (remember how Jesus spoke of the religions and religious leaders of His day – with utter disgust and disdain!) Especially avoid those denominations who add things that are actually opposed to what the Bible teaches on any issue – you can only do this by being personally familiar with what the Bible actually says and not allowing religious leaders to direct you to their way of thinking instead, that way you will be able to do what we are commanded in I John 4–to discern proper teaching and teachers from false ones, who will outnumber proper teachers and teaching the closer to the end of the church age.

God bless you in your search for the truth. He has promised that for all those who diligently and urgently seek Him, they will find Him. Never forget it’s about Him, not any one church. And true believers are found spread across the world in all different churches…they are the "true church" (aka Body of Christ) not one specific denomination which seeks glory for itself (in fact, self-glorification is a marker of a false believer, take note!)
References :

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by Ray M

Ray M — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:43:59 +0000

You will get all sorts of answers here.

Generically, if you are not Catholic, you will say NO. Possibly with stronger words attached and even a few pieces of false information to talk about how evil the church is.

If you are Catholic, you’ll say yes.
We believe we were the first Christian Church. Jesus changed Simon’s name to Peter, gave him the keys ( a symbol of authority) and told him to feed his sheep. These were all ways of showing how Peter was the first Pope.
The church compiled the Canon of the church, kept it safe/intact throughout the dark ages and other tough times.

Many will tell you that you don’t need the Catholic church to find that fellowship and that is true. I am the only Catholic in my family (I converted in college) and I know my sister and my mother both have excellent churches where they are very involved and enjoy their religious life.

I would suggest you to
1) get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic church. We’re the only church that has actually put out a book telling you exactly what we believe. We don’t change it. It’s right there for you to read.
2) talk to the local Catholic priest. enroll in RCIA classes. These are just classes to teach you about the church. If you don’t want to join, you simply drop out of the classes at a certain point. Many non-Catholics have taken these classes simply to learn.

And here is a hint: if a church is too busy yelling about how evil other churches are, or how anyone who belongs to it is going to hell… probably not a "community of believers who are following Christ."

Whatever you decide to join, I pray for you to find where you belong. God bless.

@pugjw9896 – The Catholic church does go door to door. I’ve done it many, many times. I particularly love it when a JW or a Mormon answers the door.
References :

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by Fullness of the Truth!

Fullness of the Truth! — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:22:59 +0000

The Bible gained it’s authority from the Church, not the Church from the Bible.

Yes, I sincerely believe that the Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ. In fact, I wrote a ten page report on it for my English class. If you want me to, I’ll go over the points with you, Just email me.

God Bless
References :
I’m a Catholic

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by cheap_papa3000

cheap_papa3000 — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 15:12:59 +0000

The first church of Christ no doubt had to be those who were deemed true followers of Jesus Christ.
The word church in the New Testament is written in Greek as " kaleo", which means to ‘to call’..with
the Greek prefix "ek" which means "out" thus the English translated the word "ekklesia". The word
was "ekklesia" translated "church" in the English Bible. The word means " the called out ones".
By the time of Jerome’s translation of the New Testament from Greek to Latin the word had taken
on the meaning of a temple or building to worship in but this was not the Greek meaning. To use
the word church as the meaning of "ekklesia" is wrong in it’s meaning. Yet as we go forth the
English word church, defined from ekklseia, continues to instill in many world wide as a building
of organized worship or temple. The actual meaning of the word church refers directly to those
whom Jesus was calling to him. The true church or ekklesia of Jesus Christ were those men and
women who would become part of his governing Kingdom. Jesus made a start of calling them to him
when he started his earthly ministry. He came upon Simon Peter and Andrew mending their nets
and he spoke to them saying, " Follow me and I shall make you fishers of men." He called many
but few were chosen. To this day members of the true church or ekklesia have been called forth
to finish their miniistry on earth and take their places with their spiritual brothers as kings and
priest in the heavenly government that they were baptized into. The Catholic Bible and the King
James Bible call these chosen ones that were called to be a royal priesthood of kings, the "elect"
and or "Saints". So the true religious teaching of Gods word was carried on by these that were
called because they were left to be Shepherds or "stewards" of the congregation or "flock" great
crowd. The Catholic are and were not and if examined for their belief and teachings were not the
church of Christ but more so the church of the Pope displaying power in many military forms and
part of the woman riding the wild beast as proclaimed in Revelation. Understand that many blindly
follow the decree of the Roman Catholic Church and it’s Pope without thorough knowledge of Gods
word. The church teaches some truth mixed with lies which nullifies the entire doctrine of the church
for Jesus said. " What does the truth have to do with a lie, or righteousness with unrighteousness,
or good with bad." Because you are luke warm I will spew you from my mouth." In others words
the teachings are pure truth or pure lies. Because they are mixed with both truthful teachings and
false teachings, Jesus will not accept those who practice them. He will not find refreshment of
the fruitages of the spirit by the means of this teaching and like a glass of lukewarm water he
will not drink or take them in but spew them out, condemn them. He seeks those who listen and
obey the word of God as it was meant to be. They are the refreshing cool water he will take in.
Seek to come to an accurate knowledge of Almighty God and the one whom he sent forth, Jesus
Christ. In doing so, to remain as a refreshing drink of water you will have to give up old teachings
and customs that are not truth.
References :

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by grnlow

grnlow — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:44:59 +0000

No. They came into existence in the 4th century. Long after 1st and 2nd century Christians had flourished and receded. After that time, the true Christian organization lay dormant in all but a few individuals over the centuries until today.

Jesus foretold in the Bible at Matthew 24, how that in the final days of this wicked system, there would be a tremendous world wide work to be done by his true followers. (24:14) This means they would first need much training in the Bible’s knowledge first. Then grow in numbers to accomplish this work.

How to tell who this is? The Bible tells us many identifiers of them. Just two of these are found at John 13:34-35 and 1 Corinthians 1:10.

"I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.”

"Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought. "

The first were the words of Jesus himself. They mean they could never take part in any of the wars fought today. Neither would they have anything to do with racism, nationalism or even tribalism. All of these things would involve harming spiritual brothers and sisters on the other side of these conflicts. That would violate those orders of Jesus. So those supporters of such wars and divisions could not be true Christians.

The second, is evidence of the unity of true Christians in every part of the planet. If the religions you look at have divisions, denominations, sects or even different answers to the same basic questions, then these are not the true religion of Christ.

These are just two of many things identifying the true religion. They would need to follow all of the things in the Bible that identifies true followers of Jesus.
References :

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by Miss Biology

Miss Biology — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:21:59 +0000

No the Catholic church does not have the authortiy of the bible. They act like it, but they are wrong and sinful for doing so. The bible says that we should follow the scriptures alone, and if we do this we can tell who is a false prophet and who isn’t.. bible first, humans second. However it is often the other way around in the catholic church. Ex: Catholics require pope, nuns, and priests to take a vow of celibacy. In 1 Timothy Paul states that forbidding marriage is a sign of false prophecy. God said, In Isiah, to not contact those who’ve passed on, yet catholics talk to Mary and other saints. The bible says, in 1 TImothy that Jesus is the only mediator between heaven and earth, yet Catholics use Mary and other Saints as mediators as well….

The catholic church came around 300 years after Christ. Home churches existed long before the catholic church….. they were the first to create a more physical nation-wide church, but it was more pagan like than christ-like. Paganism was a strong influence in the civilization, so to try and ‘convert’ pagans the catholic church adopted many of their teachings: talking to saints, the virgin mary being ’superior’, statues used during worship, the addition of jewish legends into the bible, and more are all pagan in origin.

Thus its hard to call them the first ‘christian’ church…. its also why so people broke off of them, including the orthodox and protestants.

Catholics say that Jesus founded their church, and bring up a passage where Jesus calls Peter a rock. But, in all reality, there is no real connection between the catholic church and Jesus or Peter. Peter was NOT the first pope like catholics say… there is NO indication of him, in the bible, being universal bishop (a pope). Paul, if anybody, had more influence than Peter.

To read more about the origin of the catholic church check out this source:

http://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html
References :
Can provide passages and sources upon request

Comment on Do the Catholic church have authority of the Bible ? and were they first church of Christ? by pugjw9896

pugjw9896 — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 13:47:59 +0000

To decide which religious group to join, check out WHO is being obedient to what Jesus taught… doesn’t matter if any group CLAIMS to be right…
It is obedience to what Jesus asked that matters…
Just WHAT did he ask?
(Matthew 28:19-20) Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.
What to teach them.?

(Matthew 24:14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
(Luke 4:43) But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.”
What Kingdom?
(Daniel 2:44) “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;
What group is doing this?
With everyone doing it lke this…

(Acts 5:42) And every day in the temple and from house to house they continued without letup teaching and declaring the good news about the Christ, Jesus.
(Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house.
What group does door to door?…men ans women???
compare the actions of all the religions and you will have the one that is approved of by God and his son.
Actions speak LOUDER THAN WORDS…
References :
NWT