Christians: imagine you are in a place where the only church remotely close to your doctrinal beliefs is…?
February 242010
…pastored by a consummate moron. He knows absolutely no Bible, he can’t teach, and his sermons are all the same thing over and over. After discussion attempts over a 4 month period, he refuses to grow/adjust/listen to any constructive criticism. He speaks badly of the only people in church who win others to Christ. (I’ve begun to suspect that he’s either unsaved, totally walking in the flesh, or in some deep secret sin, or that maybe even demonic oppression may be involved.) The next church is 1.5 hours away by car, and gas is approx. $9/gallon.
The pastor will not allow anyone else to volunteer to teach any classes to take the load off him.
People are leaving the church.
The members of the church are great – they really love the Lord, and the fellowship with other members is good.
Corporate fellowship with other believers is really important to me.
I’m a Baptist living in Italy – this is the only English speaking church for many miles, and just happens to be Baptist. It seemed to good to be true. As it turns out – it was.
What would you do?
Hi Monica,
I’ve seen some of your posts on here and it seems you really do love the Lord – makes me smile 
)
It sounds like a really difficult place to be in however there are a few suggestions:
1) Learn Italian…
I know that this isn’t probably the thing that inspires you the most but if there are other Italian churches nearby then perhaps learning the language and joining them might be an idea?
2) House church
I know others have suggested it but if there are others who are leaving the church for the same reason then perhaps they too would like to meet together and fellowship with you. There is nothing that tells us we need to go to an established church and sometimes churches that meet in the home can be an enormous blessing. There are obviously complexities involved in this (not least of which are offerings, elders, teachers etc). You would need to find a way to overcome these but others have and you might seek to learn from their example?
3) Remove the pastor
This might seem a bit drastic but if you have followed the first aspects of Matt 18 and spoken to the pastor in person then try approaching the elders and speaking to them. Maybe they have a similar view but haven’t yet been vociferous about it?
Also, I don’t know how pastors are chosen in Baptist churches but is there a higher body to whom you could appeal to have the pastor moved on / corrected.
Indeed, this might be the best option as ultimately it is not just you who is suffering but all of the Lord’s children are. If you can do something about it then I would urge you to… Remember, being a Christian was never going to be easy or comfortable…
May the Lord bless you, embolden you and strengthen you as you continue to desire to serve Him. For the sake of His Son!
February 25th, 2010 at 1:02 am
I believe in Scripture, and the Savior of Scripture, YAHOSHUA. I can find no denominational church remotely close to my doctrinal beliefs. ‘Christianity’ is the ‘Babylon’ that YAHOSHUA is calling His followers to ‘come out of’.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 1:41 am
Start your own house church or drive 1.5 hours.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 1:48 am
Then start a fellowship meeting group outside the church. Attend service to worship if you wish, but keep discussion amongst yourselves.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 2:22 am
Wow. I am living in a town with at least 1 church on every block, and I am not kidding. I often say the problem here is "too many churches."
You have online access, and there are many good programs online. The church of the 21st century is having to adapt, just like the rest of the world, and maybe we need to get more churches to put their services online.
As a Baptist PK, I know there are methods for evaluating a pastor’s performance. My father was subject to annual "confidence votes" and there are other methods for removal. Pastors are accountable to their flocks, at least at this level.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 2:51 am
Personally, I have that problem right here in the US. I have a church at each end of the street, no more than 5 blocks from me. Churches here have no idea of what faith or worship is. I started a home fellowship. You could too. Invite other believers in your area to come to your home and fellowship and worship with you. As they do, you could pick out someone who is especially good at teaching and have them teach something the following week and have a group discussion instead of a sermon. You learn a lot more and the fellowship is stronger in the end.
http://homechurchassociation.org
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 3:28 am
Take the train to the other church.
Consider other Christian denominations in your area.
Spend more time with the other members of the church for fellowship, Bible study, and worship.
If he won’t listen to you all after you’ve done the Matt. 18 thing and isn’t open to growth or feedback then his "leadership" will cause you to hit a ceiling in your spiritual growth, not to mention a bunch of continued grief and heartache so it’s probably time to move on.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 4:10 am
the faith in GOD must grow in times of confusion!this is one way of testing the true believers.if they are the stumbling block,then ask GOD in prayer to find another group of true believers where you will grow God wants you to achieve.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 5:00 am
talk to those that are leaving the church and gather at someones house for fellowship. it could be a different house each month or week or rent an empty building. it does not have to be a church building, Jesus said where two or more are gathered together in my name there shall i be also so He will honor anyplace you all choose to meet for worship. May God be with you all.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 5:42 am
Philippians 2:14
Do all things without murmurings and disputings…
Something along those lines…
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 6:30 am
Hi Monica,
I’ve seen some of your posts on here and it seems you really do love the Lord – makes me smile
)
It sounds like a really difficult place to be in however there are a few suggestions:
1) Learn Italian…
I know that this isn’t probably the thing that inspires you the most but if there are other Italian churches nearby then perhaps learning the language and joining them might be an idea?
2) House church
I know others have suggested it but if there are others who are leaving the church for the same reason then perhaps they too would like to meet together and fellowship with you. There is nothing that tells us we need to go to an established church and sometimes churches that meet in the home can be an enormous blessing. There are obviously complexities involved in this (not least of which are offerings, elders, teachers etc). You would need to find a way to overcome these but others have and you might seek to learn from their example?
3) Remove the pastor
This might seem a bit drastic but if you have followed the first aspects of Matt 18 and spoken to the pastor in person then try approaching the elders and speaking to them. Maybe they have a similar view but haven’t yet been vociferous about it?
Also, I don’t know how pastors are chosen in Baptist churches but is there a higher body to whom you could appeal to have the pastor moved on / corrected.
Indeed, this might be the best option as ultimately it is not just you who is suffering but all of the Lord’s children are. If you can do something about it then I would urge you to… Remember, being a Christian was never going to be easy or comfortable…
May the Lord bless you, embolden you and strengthen you as you continue to desire to serve Him. For the sake of His Son!
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 6:53 am
I lived in an area like that for 19 years with the same problem in a tiny housechurch where all but 2 members were my elderly relatives, who regarded photos as suspicious and telephones as wasteful.You just have grin and bare it.In the meantime attend Itailan classes.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 7:27 am
may i suggest you try and start your own bible study group separate from his church? if you can gather a congregation large enough eventually you may become the 2nd english speaking church in that town.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 8:10 am
Good question. First of all, don’t be afraid to commute to a good church. It takes about an hour to get to my church, even though there are a few churches that are a stone’s throw away. One of my Christian brothers who lives in another city once commented that it is better to take a bus to a good church than to walk to a bad one.
Talk to the International Mission Board. Tell them your story and see if they cannot help you out. The pastor is the captain of the ship, but he is not the owner.
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 8:35 am
I ask the YHWH myself ! Ezekiel 14:7
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 9:13 am
This is simple.You leave and take the others with you.You start a house church and all can share there knowledge of GOD.You can get information here from us or other sites about the word of GOD.Don’t follow the isms and schisms of any denomination anyway.Also you can bring your concern to the church elders and leaders.Tell them where all walking if we don’t get the BIBLE lessons we need. THANK YOU D’S
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 9:20 am
I haven’t attended a Church in several years for basically this reason. Not exactly the same situation, but close.
Living in the south, most other Christians don’t like my personal religious views. And, I share my beliefs not to demean theirs but to simply share ideas. People have suggested that I simply go to church and keep my mouth shut on my personal beliefs about the Bible and so on, but I feel if a Church cannot at least be tolerant of my beliefs, then why should I even attend? How are they of the Lord when they are so outright judgmental and closed-minded?
So, I haven’t been to church in years, and I’ve considered given a couple other churches a shot, but it is hard for me to do so.
Though I have enjoyed interpreting the Bible on my own and coming to a better understanding of God, I still feel somewhat unfulfilled. Before I die one day, I’d like to find a church where I am accepted, even if my ideas and beliefs aren’t, and be Baptised of my own free-will. Either way, I fear that I’ll have to end up paying lip-service to a church I don’t truly believe in to get Baptised. But, if it is all for the Lord, then perhaps I should just suck it up.
So, to answer your question. . . I suppose I can’t. I think we both need an answer for this problem. All we can do is pray and trust the Lord to show us the way.
Take care and God bless
References :
February 25th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Pray for wisdom and perhaps carefully begin some of your own little non-threatening bible studies with some of the willing members. Go easy at first. Who knows, maybe God will use you mightily in rescuing a few out of that unique form of spiritual darkness. At the same time get the true Christian fellowship you need.
References :